The ServiceLegend Podcast – Episode #21 – What is Painting Marketing? W/ Skylar Stewart

 

Transcript:

Well, happy Friday and welcome back to another episode of the Service Legends Podcast. I have a real treat for you guys today, someone that I’ve been personally inspired by on how he’s just created this awesome lifestyle and he’s got a really cool dog as well. Skyler Stuart, welcome to the podcast.

Hey Ron, thanks for having me on, man. I appreciate it.

Yeah, absolutely. I know when I when when my assistant posted the the scheduled thing I know Tanner, Nick, Joe commented, They were like, super excited about this one. I feel like you’re one of those characters in the industry that maybe haven’t been on the forefront as much. Yeah, like, and like, it’s not like it’s secretive, but like, dude, like you’re everywhere. You’re hiking, you’re spend time with your dog, your family, and we’ll jump into that. But yeah, super, super excited to have you here, man.

Awesome. Yeah, I’m glad to be here. Yeah, I’ve known those guys for a while and yeah, I do kind of creep around in the background, but you got, you got to get around the best people, so. Yeah.

Absolutely, man. So most of our listeners probably know who you are because you’ve been, you know, active in the painting contractor group. You’ve got some amazing relationships, you’ve run a great company. But for those of you that are listening live or on the replay that don’t know Skyler, he’s the owner of. Pga painters out of Pittsburgh, and he got into the business painting a three bedroom house that took a month. He had no clue what he was doing. He wanted to own his own business. Had that entrepreneur bug and painting business like the industry seemed like it’d be a good place to start. He’s he currently runs the sales and really everything else at the company. He’s got a full time project manager to help with that side of the business. He’s got a virtual assistant to do some of the calls, the outsourcing, things like that. And so he’s really kind of designed something amazing. He loves to travel a lot and he brings his dog with him. He’s got a beautiful dog. He loves to hike, backpack and just loves to climb and be in nature. And if you could break down so you if you can give everyone just a quick summary of the business, the size of the team revenue and things like that, that’d be that’d be great.

Cool. Cool. Yeah. So. I’ve been doing this for about going on four years now. So this would be this would be like our fourth full year in business. And we went through even just a lot of changes this year. But currently what the team looks like is what are they me doing? Sales, marketing, We got a VA and then I have Kirk as my project manager and then we’re all subcontractor based now, which is a new as of like four or five months ago. So we probably have about. Probably about 15 painters out painting right now. Wow.

That’s incredible. So it’s all subs right now.

All subs, which has been all new this year. Like last year we had about ten painters on staff. And then even at the beginning of this year, beginning of summer, we were running like nine painters on staff. But I ended up transitioning this summer to the subcontractor model.

Nice. Nice. I’d love to dive into that too. And obviously you got Jason Parrish. That’s now. I think he did all subs and then now he’s he’s he’s he was mentioning last PCI expo that he’s going to switch it up and do 5050. I was actually just, just talking to the director of talent at Olive Holdings and they were talking about that a little bit too and incredible stuff. So we’ll dive into that as well. And what’s what’s really crazy is last year you did like just over 550 K and you’re going to do 1.2 this year. I mean, you literally are doubling, bro. Like, it’s incredible. I mean, I imagine that’s that’s been fun. Exciting, but but also challenging, too.

I imagine it’s been yeah, it’s been a lot of fun. Challenging, but I think a lot of it ended up with like switching models helped us a lot because we had the like the marketing and sales were there. We had a good brand and like presence in the community already and honestly, we don’t even do that much marketing. We got a lot of like word of mouth and everything like that. But the biggest limiter of the past two years, like we almost did the same revenue the previous two years, and it was mainly because we just couldn’t find the, the right people to put on the team to actually produce all this work. So once we kind of like switched models and I know you’re saying there’s people that are going back to like a hybrid model, but I think. I guess, for how I have it set up like. Employees can work super well, but I think there’s a certain amount of oversight you’ve got to have there. And I wasn’t willing to hire someone else or put in all the extra time myself to do that. So just making that quick switch was like, Oh, we just solved a bunch of our problems very quickly.

So yeah, and that’s a really cool thing about Home Services is there’s a lot of avenues to be successful. I mean, it’s incredible. Franchise dealer network subs, internals, hybrid. There’s 1000 ways to skin a cat and there’s 1000 ways to be successful in home services. And I think that’s really cool that you’ve really found what works for you and your business and kind of what what you know, what matches your guys’s values and your goals, things like that. Also, guys, if you guys are listening in live, you can type in comments, hashtag live and let us know who’s live, who’s not live. If you’re watching us on the replay, you could type in hash tag replay. That would be awesome. And of course, you know, I don’t run sponsors on the show or anything like that. Andy Priscilla talks about it all the time. If the only fee that I that I ask is you share this with your friends, your other partners, your other concrete coding companies or power washing companies, you name it, share this with them. So we can we can try to reach more people together. Okay, cool. So one of the cool things we’re chatting here before we started, I’ve been super inspired by you.

You know, I follow you on Instagram and I see all the things you do and I’ll show my wife to I’ll be like, Honey, like this. This is like, look, like he’s over here doing this, doing that. And I wanted to ask you, like, so, like, did you intentionally start the business thinking or knowing that you were going to build kind of a lifestyle situation, or did that happen gradually? If you could speak to that a little bit. And the reason why I think it’s cool for to ask this question is because I think a lot of these painters that are out there that we love and that we work with on the marketing side that I have friendships with, Sometimes we start the business and we don’t know really like why we started it and we started it because we want to make money or work for ourselves or whatever. But I think it’s so important to really understand the end game, whether to sell the business or build a lifestyle business. And I’m just curious, like if you thought about that when you first started and kind of how that, how that kind of worked out.

Yeah, so. Suddenly developed over time. It’s hard to, like, have the forefront of like what exactly I’m building in the beginning, but having like that lifestyle that I did want and that I’ve now kind of live now was always the idea from the beginning. Like I was looking for some business to start before I started the painting company and it just seemed like the most accessible at the time. So I don’t have like a long lineage of painters in the family or anything like that. I was just like, you know, you’re saying the story of how I just painted one house took me a month. I was like, Well, this is a business I could start and I could get into. And it’s, you know, low barrier to entry, which is why there’s so many one man shops and everything around like that. And I was like, Well, we’ll start doing this and try to get off the brush and be able to do all the things I want to do as soon as possible.

So and that’s cool. I know for me, when I started Cardinal, it was it was, you know, I’ll telling you like I know you mentioned, you know, painting a house in a month. I remember one of our first jobs we started Cardinal in July of 2020, did our first install in August of 2020. And so we pre-sold about four weeks of work before we, you know, did our first install. And that was intentional to make sure we had that kind of doubt in when we’re starting. But I remember we we saw one job and it was like maybe like 1500 square feet of pool deck and patio and which is challenging middle of summer. So this is probably like September at this point, or maybe October or maybe August of 2020. And we had two technicians that we started with, and I think they both didn’t work out because, you know, one of the first jobs was this pool deck. And so it ended up being my dad, my older brother and myself on the pool deck doing the job as I you know, as I’m running the marketing company. You know, I think we’re about a year in or so in the marketing company. And I’m out here on this pool deck doing the work myself, and I’m like, Dude, what did we just get ourselves into here? Like, I’m a marketer, I’m a sales type type guy, and I’m like, I’m out here freaking grinding with the hand grinder.

We’re moving cool deck. I mean, it was it felt like a disaster. And so I think it’s so important to when we when we you know, like when you start the business that you really have some intentionality with what your goals are with the business and really taking time to understand like what the goals are, what your dreams are, what your endgame is, and dialing in those one year, three year, five year, ten year goals. Because I know when I started it was just like, you know, I think I can do this. So it’s cool to hear that you started this knowing that you wanted to build a lifestyle and you’re super young, you’re super smart, successful, and a lot of the things you like to do, you know, I imagine, you know, really fulfill you. What’s it like now, though? So, like, you know, you started out, you know, kind of this intention. Did you find that that that that kind of picture perfect lifestyle? Like, are you there now? Do you feel like you made it? Do you feel like you’ve developed something and kind of created something that is going to be fulfilling for you now?

Yeah, I’d say so. I mean, I guess like two years ago I was like, I want to travel like every single month. So I’ve been doing that now for like over two years, which has been awesome, but at the same, at the same time. You sometimes get? I don’t know. I’ll get bored with stuff. So it’s like I. I had the painting company. It was doing great. I was able to do some little investing on the side, do all the traveling. And then like, this year came and I was it was a it was sitting there for like two years and it was enough to fund my lifestyle and everything. And then I, I wanted more of a challenge. That’s why we’ve like doubled in size this year because I was like, All right, it’s not like buckle down for something else. I’ll get a little more satisfaction out of the painting company and the challenges of growing a business as well.

Yeah, that’s cool, man. So let’s jump into this a little bit. So. Dublin, the business. Who’s your Grace’s ideal customer? And like, your ideal target market over there at the business.

It’s probably like if I’m going out and, like, selling jobs, like the majority of my jobs are sold to, like, most of the time I’m meeting with, like, the woman. Usually it’s a family, and like, most of the time I’d say they’re in the range of like 40 to 70. It’s usually I’m talking to the most.

Nice. Yeah. And then do you guys develop, like the marketing strategy specific to that, that avatar?

So. A bit. If we’re doing like we do, like a little bit of Facebook stuff like that, which we’re like, we’ll target that more. But like a majority of our leads have just come from. Word of mouth and also just just Google. And I’d say like if I look at our stats, like we’re like 50% of our business is still just like word of mouth jobs. So with that, it’s a lot of these like ideal customers that we’re serving. Like they just pass us off to the exact same people, like they’re.

Telling like a 45 year old woman, maybe with some young kids. This is has those friends, whether at church or whatever. Right. Like like they know those other women.

It’s crazy. I did a quote this morning and it’s like a it’s like a townhouse community for kind of like older folks. And they’re in they’re in bundles of four. And I’ve painted every all four in the group. And then last month we did one of their cabinets. So I just left this morning and I sold the next door neighbor, one of the cabinets, and I’ll probably be back to sell the other two cabinets as well, because it’s just like how like some of these neighborhoods, like as long as you, like, deliver like a good product and also like, like I tried hard to push the experience that we’re actually providing as well, something that’s just as important as the product. Yeah, so a lot of that.

Yeah, I love that. And it’s so true. Like, like the word of mouth. Like when you hear some companies are like, they only live off of word of mouth, and I think they do it like, by accident, you know, because they don’t really know how to market or buy their own customers, things like that. But I think the real solid companies, like I was talking to Jason Philips over there, Philips Home Improvement, and I think their number one acquisition is from repeat or referral business and or word of mouth. And even though they can go buy as many customers as they need to, they’re still number one is the the the referral word of mouth, etc.. And I think that really probably speaks to your guys’s craftsmanship and your ability to to deliver the actual result or or the work. Do you feel like the reason why you’re like your word of mouth is so high is because the quality of work. Um.

I actually wouldn’t say the quality work. I say more like the experience. So it’s like having the multiple touch points, like doing like a like if I’m sending in a sub crew and like, I’m going there spending the first like 20 minutes just talking to the customer. I mean, we’re not even talking about painting or anything like that. I’ll just shoot them a call mid project and then just walk in at the end. And like none of the time we’re really talking about painting unless something comes up about the specific project. But just kind of like developing that relationship like that as we’re painting is, I want to say I think what does it like? I don’t like our quality is good, but it’s not like, Oh, these guys are the the best painters that have ever existed.

There’s only so good you can get like painting, right? Like the same thing with floor painting, like. Like. I mean, there’s probably I mean, there’s like probably like five or seven, five or seven different, like really solid companies that are competitors to us. And they all do great work. Like, I mean, the floor is going to look fantastic, but like, you can’t make it look better. Like once you reach like a certain level of like, hey, the work is really good. Like, yeah, I mean, the works to work, right? I mean, as long as you’re doing good quality work and you, you know, you take pride in that, you can’t get much better, right?

I agree. I think there’s like a balance to be struck between like, great. Like we’re like delivering great results, but we’re not delivering like, you know, the difference between like and then you could do something like Zac Kenny and it takes like five times the amount of effort for something that’s better. But it’s like our customers don’t want to pay for that. Like they don’t want that. They just want good work and good communication and all that stuff.

So I love that You mentioned that I’m going to grab something here is I developed what’s called I’m not sure if you guys can see this. If you guys are listen to the audio afterwards. You can’t see this, but it’s the seven steps to a 100% satisfied customer. And when we land the plane with with the sale, we’ll go over this with them. And every time they’re like they’re like, wait, you guys have like a process to, like, make sure I’m 100% satisfied. I’m like, yeah, because, you know, our our core value, our first core value is. Our first core value is 100% satisfied customers. So it’s like. And it’s that experience. I mean, like again, there’s like 5 to 7 different companies in here. I mean, I’ve got TSR as a competitor here. They’re huge. They deliver a great experience to and great product. But it’s like, you know, we try to make it very special and unique and make sure that they know that they’re never going to get lost in the shuffle. And those multiple touch points like you talked about, I love that you mentioned that because I feel like really to build a company where that like there’s a lot of word of mouth, there’s repeat business, you’re getting great reviews if you’ve got to develop that experience. Even at the marketing company here, I always talk about like with our team, I was I was talking about this week actually is we can deliver an amazing experience but crappy results. People will cancel flip flop if we give amazing results, but a crappy experience, they’ll cancel. And it’s really both. It’s like I have to deliver great results and deliver an amazing experience. And I think when those things come together. That’s when magic happens.

Yeah, I definitely agree with that.

Yeah, man. So what are your guys’s USP like? Your unique selling propositions? Like, how do you guys position yourself in the eyes of your customers? Like, how do you guys do that specifically there?

So I guess the main thing is when we do like we’ll do like a low, a low deposit. So a lot of times I’ll try to sell on the spot, do a low deposit. And then so we pretty much like the majority of the project is paid once we’re all done. I do like 100% satisfaction guaranteed. And then like usually once I start the project, like it’s either me or my project manager, like I’ll let them know like, Hey, we’re going to be here when this job kicks off. Like, if I’m the one managing the project, like I give them my personal cell phone number, I’m like, Listen, if anything pops up, like, maybe I have like a little questionnaire in the day, like, just shoot me over a text and I don’t get hit up that much. But it’s just like even the thought of them, like knowing that, I think it goes, it goes really well and just like, ease eases their nerves.

Yeah, absolutely. That’s a big one. Is. And I feel like it’s so common for customers to get lost in the shuffle and in home service and especially in painting because, you know, like our jobs are mainly one day or two days. So like the the process is really quick. But if you’re doing painting, like in like cabinets, I mean, you’re talking a couple of days. Exterior repaint, you know, that are bigger home. I mean, what’s the like the average like days that you guys work on like three or four days or something like that?

Yeah, we’re probably looking at three or four days. And yeah, it is very tough on those one day jobs because we’ll do the one day jobs and it’s very hard to get like any like even one touchpoint sometimes because we’re the guys are just in and out so quickly. But yeah, it’s hard to build that relationship there.

Yeah, I love that though that that you really focus on the on the on the experience and also making sure that the customers are aware that they’re never going to get lost in the shuffle. You call me if you need anything. I think that’s really, really big. I think most contractors are out there, you know, they almost like don’t want to get contacted, you know, like they’re trying to hide and hopefully they don’t call me or whatever.

Anything goes wrong out there, you know?

Yeah, it’s like, okay, we’re human. Things are going to happen. Expectations could be missed or like, there’s there’s you name it. So I love that. What type of marketing do you guys do? Like, what’s the marketing mix over there?

So our biggest thing is just Google. So do Google ads. And we’re, we’re basically like in the have like the most reviews and like the our area of Pittsburgh here, that’s like our number one lead source. And then after that, it’s actually just our vans. And then after that it’s like yard signs. So yeah.

Now. So, so, so. So you’re dominating page one, I imagine with so you have your Google ads probably, you know, they’re popping up above the Google business profile, formerly known as GAB your Google ad there, and then you’re in the map pack, which I believe the last stat I knew of was 45% or more of all clicks on the first page are in the map pack. So you’re there, you’re getting clicks, you’re getting calls. Do you find that you get more phone calls or more form submissions from from the web there?

I would say more of our leads are are from form form submissions. Wow. Yeah. But I don’t have any hard data on that either. Yeah. So yeah, yeah.

That’s what it seems like. Okay, so you got the so you got the Google ad, you’re in the map pack and I wonder I love to track that and see like, are they coming from the map pack for you or are they coming from any organic like SEO rankings because you got the Google ads. Yeah, the GMB and then you got below that you have all the all the organic rankings. And if you’re anywhere on page one, I mean, that’s a beautiful place to be. Google ad boom map pack and then the organic rankings. I mean, you’re I mean, you’re going to get an app that you know. Yeah.

From yeah, from what I see in like we actually haven’t spent a ton of money on SEO, so we’re honestly usually not in the top on the regular, but we’re usually in the map pack. I think just from all the Google reviews, that’s what I push really hard on the guys is like getting these Google reviews and I incentivize it. So I think that’s what keeps us like in that map pack.

Yeah. Yeah. It’s a great place to be. Yeah. Okay. And then you do some offline marketing. So like, you have wrapped vehicles and then you do the yard signs if you know which one works better.

The, the vans do the best. I think that was probably like 15% of our sales this year was just from people saying, Oh, I saw your van and they gave us a call. I’ve literally I’ve had jobs. Call me. Like three months later. And they were like, Oh yeah, I saw you doing this, this building. And I was like, Oh, we painted that place like three months. You know, they’re calling us that dude.

That’s crazy. The power of branding is incredible. I think your vans are, like, fully wrapped, too, right?

Not. Not a full wrap. We have their wrapped all over, but it’s not. It’s like lettering and everything like that, so.

Wow. That’s pretty powerful because the branding is so huge. I mean, you’re already in the you’re already in the in the neighborhoods. And Dan Antonelli talks about branded, not blended. And he has this book out as well. I have them on the podcast, but there’s there’s so many, you know, white vans or trucks that are going into these neighborhoods doing work. They have white trailers. And I’m like like I mean, you just said like I mean, you know, the word of mouth is huge, but no one knows who we are if we’re not if we’re not branded there.

I agree completely. It’s. It’s pretty nice when you’re like in a neighborhood for the seventh time and you’re painting another house on the street and it’s like once you’re in that neighborhood that many times and your vans are out front, you’re leaving the yard signs out. It’s like they have they have to at least get a quote from you when they’re ready to paint.

So, yeah, 100%. That’s cool. And then your colors are are are really poppy, too. That orange is like. Yeah, it it’s definitely probably drawn some attention out there too. I mean, it’s catchy. I’ve seen it. It’s really nice.

I appreciate that.

Yeah. Do you guys also, like, doorknock around the jobs that you guys are at at all?

We we haven’t been doing that. That’s in our that’s in our plans as of now, since we now are getting the full time project manager, that would be kind of his responsibility. It’s kind of like whenever we close out a job or even when he’s just doing a job site, check in, knock all the houses, if not, leave a door hanger if no one answers. And I plan on incentivizing that, too. So if he gets any booked appointments for me, there’ll be a bonus as well.

Yeah, I know for us, like on the coding world, the, the base code takes a certain amount of time to cure. And so like they’ll, they’ll try to lay down the base code before lunch and there’s lunch. But when they’re done there’s usually some time left and and so like will encourage them to I mean when you got something like this, I mean you just walk by. Hey, my name is Ryan. We’re doing the Davis family, you know, their garage filler right over here. No pressure. But hey, if you want to come check out the job, we’re doing it right now. Getting back to the job in about 20 minutes. And I wanted to give you this and call us if you need anything. Right. It’s like, super simple. Yeah, but that’s that’s really cool. Okay, let me switch gears here a little bit. So those are what’s working for you in terms of marketing. But whatever you stopped using or stop doing in terms of marketing over the past few years, that just didn’t work out, like what stopped working.

So we did a little bit of Facebook and we had a little bit of success with that, but we haven’t really been using that since. Oh, and I’ll point out one more thing that we’ve actually had a lot of recent success with is actually just handwritten letters to our previous customers. So we did that like two months ago, hit every single one. We were trying to sell a bunch of cabinet jobs, sent those out, and I think we sold like 40 K the following what some people call them.

You spend on those cards.

Well, pretty much, I don’t know, a couple hundred bucks, you know.

Like like.

They have to you. You can’t not open an envelope that has your name written on the front and you can’t think of throwing this away. You have to open that up and read it.

So that’s that’s that’s fire right there. That’s that’s crazy. So pass customers. So. So you mailed personalized letters to pass customers in the mail. And so it was like a white envelope with their name on it right there.

The white envelope like actual stamp on their hand or an address. And at the time we had like a full time secretary in here. So she just kind of banged them all out, sent them out. And then Kirk, who’s like my head. Well, he used to be the head cabinetmaker now to the project manager. He signed every single one by hand and was like, Hey, give us a call. Next couple jobs like we’re firing in free cabinet hardware. So, wow.

That’s amazing. Because I know that we I know like, like emails were huge, like reactivation campaigns, but sending the hard material in the mail, that’s a game changer. That’s that’s so personalized. I imagine that was we’re like, so appreciative. Like, wow, like, you remembered me thinking so much, like.

It was good. And we even got like, we were kind of like pitching the cabinets in that one. And then we even got some calls like, like I got a call earlier this week and I was probably almost two months ago and she was like, Oh yeah, like you’re painting my house. Last year I got like a letter from you guys, like, I need something done on the inside. So it’s just like another touchpoint. And she remembered us.

So yeah, that’s really cool because you’ve already paid for that customer. I mean, you’ve paid to acquire that customer, whether they’re $100 or $200, whatever it was, and you just reduced that, that, that acquisition essentially like, I mean, well, you can look at it like that, that you essentially reduce the the acquisition cost. That’s pretty incredible. Now, what that success like, is that a yearly thing that you guys are going to do or quarterly or what you guys think you’re going do with that?

Yeah, I think we’ll do it quarterly. We’re planning to do another one here, probably in, I don’t know, mid-November. Just kind of maybe try to push into your repainting or the next one. We might do the first one. We’re trying to push the cabinets sales. We might just do kind of like a merry Christmas or something like that. Kind of just like a check in of sorts and not actually be pushing anything, but just get the name in front of them one more time.

So this is really cool because I think you can have so much success using like Facebook ads. I mean, like, like with what Eric’s doing at is really, really cool, super solid guy and the company’s bad ass. And but, you know, they just do ads, right? And then like, you have service legend and we do ads as well, but we do SEO, we do everything all digital though, and you can have tons of success. But I feel like the younger generation guys like us and even guys that are maybe like maybe first five years in business, I think it’s all about like leads, leads, leads now. And I think we forget talking to Tommy Melo, talking to Brandon Vaughn, these guys are they’re not old. I mean, they’re like late thirties, but they’ve been in business for ten, 15, 20 years. And these guys are rock solid with offline like these thank you cards and like they’re involved in the Chamber of Commerce and there’s a lot of offline stuff and, and I don’t think it’s as quick as like a Facebook ad. It’s like I put an ad up today and I get leads right now. But this offline marketing stuff I think is forgotten. And I love that you mentioned that because obviously, I mean, you turn a couple hundred bucks into 40 K, I mean, I think anyone would do that every day, you know?

So yeah, yeah, I don’t know. I don’t know how scalable it is. I can’t hit them up the next week for it again. But with the idea you’re talking about before like reducing the, the marketing cost, that’s kind of how I’m justifying. Spending more time with the clients because we’re already spending the money on Google to acquire that one client. So instead of just spending more money on Google to get the next one, I’ll spend more on my project manager, spending more time with the client, deliver a better experience. And then ideally that turns into three more clients from the same client. So it’s like better experience and saving marketing dollars.

So, so smart. It’s it’s, it’s very wise because you’re you’re buying these customers if you can keep them in your ecosystem for as long as possible. It’s amazing. You talked about reviews as well and that you incentivize. How do you do these these? How do you get so many reviews? How are they such good quality reviews? And how do you incentivize your incentivize your team to to, you know, I guess, be motivated to get these reviews?

Yeah. So I mean, it’s transition over over this year. When we were doing the employee model, like the main like the crew leader, he would get $50 and then everyone on the crew would also get 20 bucks as well. Now that we are kind of sub based, what we do is whoever the project manager is on the job, they’ll get a 1% bonus off whatever the total job size is if they get a five star review.

So wow. Yeah, that’s really cool. So like the bigger the job, you know, the more important for that for that review too. I mean.

Oh yeah. And it’s well, it’s great. Like we just finished a 20 K job this week and then you get a five star review on that. You’re looking at $200 bonus and it’s great because it aligns with, Hey, let’s get this job done right. So it aligns that getting the job done right, making sure the customer is happy, but also aligns with us growing our digital footprint.

So yeah, that’s, that’s huge and. I mean, obviously reviews are huge because, you know, if you’re getting a lot of this traffic from the from the Google business profile, people going in there, one of the first things they do is they go look at reviews right there. So and Google has come out and clearly said that they’re one of the top five ranking factors for getting in that backpack is reviews. So, I mean, if you guys are not getting reviews like on demand every single week, I mean, shame on you, right? I mean, shame on me if I’m not getting them as well. There was a guy that I forget his name is like Alex. He runs like a cabinet painting company in Florida. And I remember he had this like, he’s got like 200 something, five star reviews. Nick Joe has been really legit on those. Like, did you start doing these reviews or like, did you like, like, make sure that you got five star reviews from the jump of the business or is it something new for you guys?

No. In the beginning we started and I think it makes it. It’s. It’s like a huge it’s it’s pretty huge to have all these reviews because it automatically gives me like status when I go in to quote a job whenever I was going into, quote, a job when I was brand new, there was like this thing I had to overcome of like, is this guy legit? Like, does he even know my house? Now that’s like not even a question in their head. It’s like. I’m just I’m just building value and give them a price. They’re not thinking I got to paint my house right. Like they know that’s already that’s already going to happen. They’re like thinking, can they afford? This is what they’re thinking. So.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, It’s tough. I know. When we first started, Cardinal two, my dad and I and I taught him how to close in the home, and there was a customer and he asked as you go, So how long have you been in business? And it was again, it was July 2020, and I was like, well, we started this year, you know, and I didn’t say we started four days ago, but yeah, I was like, yeah, we started this year and it’s like, Oh och. And yeah, well you guys don’t have any reviews or anything like that yet. And I was like, you know, and it was so awkward. I was like, Oh, crap. Like, he’s right. Like, I only have my word here and it’s super challenging. So like, I think that’s a big deal. So like, if you guys are starting out, you’re newer. Even if you’ve been in business for five years, like really dial in those reviews. I think a good target is like to shoot for like ten reviews a month because most of the time we’re doing at least 20 jobs a month. I mean, like for us, one crew can do well, I guess you guys do more days for painting, but the coding most crews are doing probably.

I don’t know. Let’s say, let’s see, about 15 jobs a month. So, I mean, like if you can get at least half of your jobs to get reviews, that’s a good target. So like, if you guys don’t have reviews or you’re struggling with your reputation not being there or you’re having to, like, oversell because of the lack of social proof. I mean, really dive into that. I challenge you guys to really dive into that and really try to get those reviews because people like it’s so common for people to leave bad reviews and a lot of times they don’t leave good reviews unless they’re asked, you know, and they’re pushed to do that. So that’s a big deal. How do you guys use social media in the business? I know, like, I really love your videos. I watch them all the time. Like you’re doing walkthroughs and I know you do that on like the real estate side as well. But how do you guys use social media in the business right now?

So yeah, I’ll try to do walkthroughs. Just try to get pictures of finished work up there, try to be posting on the stories, especially when I’m doing a lot of quotes because for us, like it’s great if we can get our customers like added on Instagram and Facebook so they can continue like just get like a drip and be reminded of us again. But I think probably when people are looking the most at our social media is like new customers, you know? So whenever we’re going out that day and they’re like, or they’re just checking us out, trying to make a decision like what kind of company they want to work with. Like if they go to my Instagram or Facebook page and we have like live stories up, I think that’s huge because they’re like automatically they’re like, okay, this company is out working on quotes and ask people and they’re like, you know, they call us people. They haven’t heard back from them. I did a quote two days ago, and the lady was like, Yeah, I called a couple of companies that I got a referral from, but I looked them up online and their last review was in 2017. Like, I don’t even know if they’re still in business or not, you know? So yeah, we just try to be active on that. And I pushed my like crews to send me photos or my project manager to do like video walkthroughs of the job, just kind of shown the layout and what that experience would be like for for new customers.

Yeah, that’s huge, man. Like, I think a lot of contractors, when social media was really starting, they were like, Oh, I don’t need to be on there, you know, whatever or whatever, you know? And now it’s like, undeniable. Like everyone laughed at Gary Vee, like five years ago when he was talking about getting content together and they’re like, Oh, I’m 40 years old or I’m 30 years old. I’m not doing that. And now it’s like it’s mandatory. Like, like, I mean, if you want to go to seven figures or eight figures or whatever, it’s really mandatory to be online, to be active. And, you know, I think I think the community really deserves it too, because they get to know who you guys are and your beliefs and your values, and you can really articulate those things through video and through the content and even just showing your recent project photos. But I think it’s really cool of the selfie videos and the walkthroughs. I think that’s really, really cool and you really get to give the homeowner an experience that they would never, ever get to see outside of going to your Instagram or whatever. So I love that. Do you feel like that is like that has helped reduce friction on the on the sales side, too?

I think so. And I’ll actually, like, pull up those videos like I got a folder on my iPad. So, like, we’re going in and we’re doing like a cabinet job. I’m like, Oh, here. Like, why don’t you watch this video? Because that’s cool. Most people have no clue what a cabinet paint job is going to look like. And they’re like, Oh my gosh, you guys are going to do all that. So it’s like building value as well. I’m like, Look at all this masking we have to do. Like, look at all this prep work. So we’ll show those videos and they’re like, it just solidifies what it’s going to look like in their head. Better than I can pitch it to them out loud.

So yeah, that’s cool. I love that. Yeah. What type of follow up marketing do you guys do? You guys do like obviously, like you talked about the thank you cards. What type of follow up marketing do you guys do on like unsold estimates or cold leads? Is there anything special that you guys do, whether it’s automations or manual or things like that?

So we use drip jobs, so that’s like.

Shout out, drip.

Yeah, shout drip drops for sure. So that’s that’s been huge. I probably rely on that more than I should. It’s better than nothing.

But it that’s what it’s there for, right? I mean.

It’s automated but then yeah, if there’s like jobs that I, I really want, I’ll give them a call or check in and shoot them a text or something like that. And then I try to like go through like sit down once a month and just like go through and call people, see if they’re still interested and stuff like that and make it does make it super easy because I can easily see my entire pipeline of jobs, like I can easily see every job that I quoted that month. But yeah, I probably could be better on the follow up.

Yeah. Hey, well, you guys have doubled, so I imagine you’re burning the candle at both ends. So. Yeah.

Yeah.

And by the way, like, drip drops is like, amazing. So if you guys, if you’re a painter, if you’re just anything really, any contractor good at drip jobs, there’s free trials. Tanner Mullens done an amazing job. And do you feel like that? Like the software side, like the technology and kind of those automations is kind of like, how has that helped you guys having something like that in place?

I think it’s been huge. I think I can take it for granted sometimes. I was at a a Sherwin-Williams event yesterday and. The speaker was like asking some questions and people were putting their hands up and it was like. You know, it brought me back to like three or four years ago when I just started. I didn’t have all this software in place because it makes it so simple for us now, like even like using drip drops in the house and writing up a quote and I have all my pre built templates like the quote look so professional when I give it to them. And then I hit them with a follow up. Like the the drips work really well to get people to get back to me or at least keep me top of mind so they don’t forget about me when I call them in like two weeks. But yeah, having all that tech in place, like if I did not have like we use Mondaq.com for our project management and everything like that, all the tech that I have in place, we probably would have to have our VA work. Like she works 10 hours a week, basically just answering, answering live phone calls. If we didn’t have all that stuff. She would definitely be like full time trying to juggle all the stuff that we do.

Yeah. Yeah. It’s been game changer for us to what’s cool about it for us too is like, like just having that data or like having those like the ability to send out a text like this to like, you know, I think we’ve got like, we’ve got like 14 or 15,000 people on the cardinal list now. And yeah, I know, it’s like Tommy’s got like frickin 500,000 people. Like he could, he could just like, boom. But I’m like, okay, so I’m trying to build that list. But if you don’t have something like that in place, you can’t really house them in an organized manner to where you can send out a blast or send out a drip or something like that. It’s been game changer for us to having something in place. So this is kind of an interesting question, but do you guys do anything on production day like the first day of a project? Like if anything special you guys do to like create raving fans or just like anything special there on like on production day, like a phone call or a specific text or anything like that.

On the first day? No. What has kicked the project off? We’ll do the walk through. But then on the last day, we do like a can of cookies. That’s like custom branded with our slice. So, like, we’ll do the we’ll do the the walk around, make sure they’re, like, 100% satisfied with everything. After that, we’ll ask them for a check and then we’ll give them a cookie can that has like the custom PGA Painter’s logo on it and it’s got like a warning label with some some jokes on the back, like, you know, careful of like overconsumption, maybe addictive. And then we just have some cookies in there from like our local bakery. So that’s always fun.

That’s really cool. That’s really, really cool. For us, you know. Yeah it’s similar is like having that, that, that special thing on the back end. Is that, is that something that like the does the production or like the, like the crew lead hand that out or is that automated like in mail or how does that how does that work?

No, it’d be great if we could figure out how to automate everybody that pays like a food delivery company to send them out every week. But right now either me or the project manager will just pick cookies up. Sometimes they get them when they’re like two or three days old because maybe go on like Monday and Wednesday, like half.

Here you guys are. What?

Yeah, I try to steal those cans out because it does get, you know, sometimes it’s rolling up to the lunchtime.

They won’t miss one cookie.

But yeah, we just throw them in there and just hand them off like in person. I think it’s good in person because it’s like that close out process. I’ll just run through that for a little like real quick so that we’ll do the walk through, you know, collect payment, we’ll give them the cookie can, and then after we give them the cookie can, that’s when we try to like get the review on site. I think if you try to get the review on site, it makes a massive difference. Every time that I’ve personally went and the client was not like. Completely upset about something. I’ve been able to get the five star review if I ask him for it and I’ll have my project manager tell the customer, Hey, I get a bonus. If I get you to leave a five star review. And they’re always happy to do that as long as he’s done a great job.

So yeah. And that experience, like the communication, like I think if you do a really good job on the experience, the communication, etc., they almost feel like obligated like, or like guilty if they wouldn’t do it, you know, if you ask for it, they’re like, I mean, I know I felt that way too. Like, like with pest control companies or different things that we’ve hired at the house, like when they asked for it. And I know they did it like did a great job. Like, like in my head, I’m like. Like I would feel ashamed of myself to not do it, you know, like I feel guilty.

So it’s going to be stand there until they do it to.

You.

Beforehand. It’s like they feel like they you know, it’s like we already provided a great service, good experience, and now we’ve even given you cookies. So you’re like, Oh, I can just pull it up for you. Something like that works.

Well, yeah, there’s a software. I’m going to send it to you after this. One of my mentors, Brandon Vaughn, turned me on to it. I forget what it’s called. It’s like gourmet. Gourmet something. I’ll figure it out and I’ll send it to you. But I think you can attach it to, like, Zapier and like. Like, like an automates or something like that and and automates branded logo, like stuff like brownies, cookies, you name it. Gift baskets and super inexpensive. I’ll I’ll send it to you.

Yeah, it’d be awesome.

Let’s talk about hiring for a second. For a second. How do you guys hire interview on board and train new team members? I know you guys are doing subs now, so but I’m sure you still have some sort of process to find good subs and. And and interview them and all those types of things. How do you guys go about finding new subs or even finding employees? Do you have a hiring process? Do you have templates or interview questions? If you could kind of speak to that for a little bit?

Yeah. So most of what I’ve learned from hiring is just like what Tanner is kind of like hiring system is. So I we have a Google doc which we like funnel everyone through. So we’ll post on, we’ll post on like Craigslist Ziprecruiter indeed, Facebook jobs and then every single one of those people on the bottom, there will be the link to our Google form. So then that filters out a ton of people because a ton of people don’t even go to the Google form and fill it out. They fill out the Google form and they don’t have any of our like huge red flag things that we’re not looking for. Then I’ll give them a call or I’ll should have a text to schedule a call. I’ll talk to them for like ten, 15 minutes. And then after that we’ll schedule in-person interviews. Usually a couple of days later I’ll try to do a couple back to back to back, and then after that I’ll shoot them an interview or I’ll shoot them like an offer the next day or two.

Yeah, I love that. I love that you have a process for it. And there’s no there’s no secret, you guys just growth finding the right people. So incredibly mission critical.

That’s definitely still a huge struggle. Is finding the right people. Yeah. Yeah.

Same here. You know, we just had a guy walk out, literally just walk out on us on Wednesday and we thought this guy was great. And and so, you know, we’re going to do an extra interview. And that’s been big for us to at the marketing company and even here is doing exit interviews and figuring out like why they left and trying to maybe address those things on the front end during the interview process. But, you know, finding a player’s like is is is mission critical, you know, especially if you don’t want to do everything yourself, you know. Yeah. So like, is there anything specific that you guys look for in a subcontractor? So there was a question here earlier. It says what’s the benefit of using subs versus in-house team members? And so that’s kind of the same thing, is like, is there anything specific that you’re looking for in a in a a player sub crew?

Yeah. So. One. One of the pain points that we have with employers is people would just leave all the time and then the really good people. It was it was hard to keep them because the just the way that we were set up with the employee model, I couldn’t pay them crazy money. So they saw this opportunity where they were like, Hey, I’ll just go start my own company and paint on the side. I will try to get some of those guys back actually as subcontractors now, because you can just make more money as subcontractors. But what I found with the subcontractor is one, I was talking about my hiring process. I’ve hired a lot of people and almost none of them are here anymore. So I haven’t figured this whole thing out. Like we’ve got a process for bringing people in, but like for retaining them and maybe picking the right one like is a skill I’m, I’m still trying to develop. So with finding the subcontractors. I find one guy. We test them out on a job or two and manage that tightly. And after that, if he’s good, he has to then go find all of his helpers. So it’s it’s much easier to scale, in my opinion, because if I find one really good guy with a crew he’s now doing. Probably like 10 to $15000 worth of production every single week. And for what I was doing before of hiring an employee, I would hire one employee. I would train them up. They’d actually start making us money in about eight weeks. And then our retention was like under a year on average. So maybe we get a good like six months out of them and then we would end up losing them.

So that’s tough. It’s always tough, man. It’s so expensive losing people, right? Like.

Yeah, yeah. And then it also put additional stress on all of our crew leaders as well because they become crew leaders. And then we say, okay, well now you have to train these new guys. And then the new guys would leave six months later. And then it was like a never ending process of them being frustrated of also training new people. So yeah.

Yeah, the people component we’ve run on iOS. Have you read Traction before?

I have read it a couple of years ago.

You know, EOS talks about like there’s like, like there’s other components and, you know, you have you have the issues, you have the systems and all that stuff, right? But one of the biggest components is the people. And that’s what I’ve realized, like on the marketing side and on the home server side is finding the right people is probably the hardest thing to do. But when you do find the A players and you build a culture that that they can thrive in. It’s incredible what can happen. Getting the right people around you, the right mentors, just people are so mission critical to the success of what we’re doing and. The Traction Book talks about that. A lot of women in the US think like people. It’s huge. Hiring people, finding good people, training good people, holding them accountable, reoccurring training. And it’s it’s probably, you know, after looking at like Tommy’s shop and going to his his vertical track and doing the shop tour, it’s all people is what I’ve seen. Ken Goodrich, he owns Dettol and he took it from 11 million to like 250 million not too long. And it’s all people. It’s all people. So really dialing in the hiring and then just the culture and all these different things find the right people. It’s so important. Nick Slavic, you know, decent human beings. I mean, if you look at his shop, all the stuff he’s doing, it’s like, it’s like you just see the right people there, do some great people around him and it’s it’s so important and it’s the most challenging thing to get doubt in. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. No, I think it’s been. It’s been a blessing having to hire all these painters and and then lose them all because it has gotten me some experience in that realm. And it’s something I still I still have a lot of learning to do around. But at least I made some progress here, so.

Yeah. Yeah. That’s what it’s all about. It’s like, you know, even on the marketing side, it’s like, you know, we’ve, we’ve brought people in and it’s like, oh, like, you know. You like. I know for me, I’ve always learned the hard way and grown up. And now I’m three years into business and I’m like, okay, I’m done learning the hard way. I’m going to I’m going to put these crazy. So I love, like the the Google form and most people are going to read it and submit their application and bounce. And one thing that we did do at the marketing company is on the job postings because we’re going to hire like ten people this quarter and the marketing company, it’s incredible. And in the middle of the job posting, Marco, our CEO, he he put and we learned this from one of the guys that we are in a coaching program with, but in the middle of the job posting, it says if you’re truly interested about this, this position, email this email and say this phrase, it’s like duck, duck, goose, or something like that in your subject line. And like only a few people would do it and but it weeds them out, you know? Oh, it’s great.

It’s great. It saves like probably hundreds of hours because it’s like, okay, we went from 100 to 4 with just a sentence. So.

Yeah, yeah. Love it, man. Well, let me ask you this. So. How do you build an amazing company culture in your painting company? How do you do that? You know, we’re talking about people. We’re talking about retaining good people. And I think we both know that we have to build an amazing culture like that people actually want to work for. I mean, it’s been a couple of years since you and I maybe worked for somebody in a business, but if you if you go back when you like, when you went, if you go work for Coca-Cola, if you go work for A-1 garage, these big companies, there’s a culture. How do you go about building a culture at at your company now?

So I guess the thing I’ve been focused the most on this year is the size of the opportunity that everyone has with the company, because in previous years it was very limited. And now with how we’re set up now everyone has like a bonus and incentive structure that it’s like you can make a lot of money here versus just like, Oh, I’m making 25 bucks an hour. I have nowhere else to go. I think that was like one of the biggest things that that made us struggle with the past couple of years because it was just like, What else I going to do? I have to leave this company. So now that stuff has changed and we’re just more incentivized and. Another thing that’s I guess a lesson I’ve learned is I would always push people pretty hard. And just learning about different personality styles that people have as well. Because everyone does not operate the same as I would like to operate, which is I love having plenty of stress on me. Like it doesn’t it doesn’t bother me. I love having more things than I could possibly do.

Like a true entrepreneur, right? Like it is pretty high, usually for an entrepreneur.

Exactly. And in my first couple of years I figured, Oh, this is how everyone wants to operate, because that’s how I’m like, I’m running best. Yeah. It turns out most people do not like that at all. So that created a lot of stress on people that I hired my first couple of years. And so now we try to be I try to be much more relaxed. I try to like look at people’s personality styles, how they operate and just kind of like. Set them up for success and whatever they’re doing kind of based on how they naturally are.

So yeah, that’s when I interviewed Jason Phillips. Like the disk personalities and like, that’s like not everyone’s motivated, motivated by money. They’re not everyone’s motivated by their family or flexibility or benefit. Like there are so many like, like you’re so spot on. It’s like, when did you realize that? Like, was that like, how long did it take you? Like, how much pain did it did it take for you to realize that.

That was honestly probably like this year, so. Yeah, it took me a while to.

Well, your revenue growth and learning these lessons, like it kind of makes a lot of sense here.

Yeah. No, that’s that’s kind of how I look at it is it’s just like, all right, we’ll figure this out. There’s going to be a lot of pain, but on the other side, it’s going to get it’s going to get much easier. Again, I see that, like even with my employees to like like the ones that I like coach up, you know, I like to I still like to push everyone that’s around me. So they’re like, I teach them something new. There’s some pain for a month or two, then it’s six months. They’re comfortable. And then I’m like, All right, it’s time for your next task.

They’re like, I just.

Got good at this one. And I’m like, Oh, it was so much growth to be had.

So, yeah, like a good leader should do, you know, push people to their potential. And that’s awesome. And it sounds like you’ve learned a lot about leadership, too, over the past year or two. Do you think like have you have you done any specific things about like around leadership to become a better leader? Because it sounds like you’ve you’ve you’ve just become a great leader.

Well, I appreciate that. That has been a big focus. And I think that’s like. I think that’s one of the biggest skills to be learned because like a lot of these. In the beginning, I was focusing on a lot of hard skills to be learned, and now it’s like I could just pay someone to do most of these things. I could just hire someone to do these, like hard skills that I would develop. But when I know the guys I look up to, it’s all about leadership. It’s all about the the people around them. One thing I did, I think last year I did John Maxwell, is like five letters, five levels of leadership. I kind of did like a course on that. So that was like the only, like in-depth training I’ve done. And then I just, you know, try to listen to podcast stuff like that to level it up. And it’s.

Been.

Great.

Yeah, yeah, that’s huge, man. I think you went to Nick Slavic retreat one time, too, huh?

Yeah. Yeah. I was up there that winter, and that was I getting around. Like I went up and visited Jason probably about a year ago, saw his operation, and then I. I went to Nick’s lavish retreat with all these guys that are just killing it. And I think that’s a big reason that we doubled in business this year, is just getting around people that are like. You know. Oh, these guys are all doing this. I could. I could do this, too. When? Before. If I was hanging out with everyone doing half a million, I was thinking, Oh, this is just. This is what you do. You just run a half a million dollar paying company. Yeah. But it just change what you think you should have when you hang around guys like that.

So, yeah, I know. When I went in, I wanted to Tommy shop a couple months back. I’ve got a couple of times, but he showed me his service tighten and he’ll show me every time. But I remember he showed me on his phone and I’m like, I’m like, Hey, so how’s everyone doing? He goes, Oh, you want to see? He pulls out his phone and shows me the like, all like these, like ten main KPIs. And he’s like, Yeah, we did 500 K yesterday.

Oh, gosh.

I was like, It’s like he’s showing me. And I’m like, Yeah. And like, I’m like, Oh, like, that’s real. Like, that can actually happen in real life. And just that awareness that that is happening in the world. I’m like, Dude, like 2 million. I’m like 2 million a year. I’m like, Dude, So you’re making 2 million like this a week? Like, I’m like, what? Yeah. And, and he’s like, Yeah. And I’m like, Dude, that is. And he’s like, Oh, yeah. And on top of that, we’re making 22% net profit. And I’m like, Wow. I’m like, No way. I like like this. I was like, This is this is no way. And just things like, you know, he, he bought the building next to him and he told me the story. He’s like, he’s like, yeah, like the business, like the the building came available and they wanted a certain amount of money. And he’s like, Yeah. And he goes, I looked at my account. There were $10 million in there and we bought it 7 million cash. And I’m like, I was like, what? Like sometimes, like, I think growing up, whether you’re blue collar or like, you own a home service company, I think some of these stories are like, they’re like fantasy unicorn stories, but like the really not as unicorn, like Tommy’s not like some magical guy. Like, he’s just like, he’s like us, dude. And he’s just been there, done that, and he’s been in business for a while and he figured things out, got the right people in place, and it’s cool to know that that’s possible, you know? And I don’t have aspirations to go to 200 million, but like, it’s just cool knowing that that’s real and, you know, it can happen if, you know, if you wanted to, you know, I think so.

And I think it’s important to actually go out like not just to hear about to go out and like actually spend the time with Tommy where he’s actually showing you the phone because it’s like you telling me or you saying, oh, this guy’s doing 250 million a year. Like automatically, like the first thought that pops in my head is like, Oh, well, that’s not for me. Like, that’s not like a possibility for me. But then when you actually go and you spend time with someone doing like 10 million a year, you’re like, Oh, this guy isn’t that different than me, You know, like.

He just put a plan in place and then like, reverse engineered it. And, and what’s funny is, like, the things we’re talking about, like the people and the systems and culture and all these core values, like, that’s like, that’s what they have, you know, like, that’s what they have in place. And they just scaled it up and and they understand their numbers and how much it cost to buy a customer and how to train people. And and it’s just cool. It’s cool to know that that’s possible. And it’s not some magical I mean, did growing up growing up it was like you know $1,000,000 was like this coolest thing ever. Right? And then when you get there, you’re like, oh, wait. Like, people are easily getting to 1 million to 5 million. And then like, oh, wait, like guys are going to eight figures and like you said, like, you get to know these guys and they’re just normal people. You know, they’re not they’re not celebrities. Like, they’re not these like magical unicorn people. Like, they’re just normal folks that are great leaders. They’re great people and they serve their team. So it’s really cool. So as we’re getting to a close here, I have a couple final questions. What is the best advice you’ve ever received? And then the second question is, what is the worst advice? What’s the best advice you ever received? And then what’s the worst?

So. I guess one of my favorite lines of advice was probably like the average of your the average like the five people you spend the most time with. So I try to be very careful of like. Who I’m keeping super close to me. You just you just average out to them, you know, it’s like, kind of like just what we were talking about, like getting around those people that are doing big things, and it just makes it seem possible. Yeah. Yeah. And then the worst advice.

Is by a lot of dude being in business for a couple of years, you get a lot of bad advice.

Yeah. Yeah. Jeez, I’m not sure if I can think of any worse advice I try to be. I try to be pretty. Like slow to put in some of the advice that I get. So I like to think about it and also run it by other people. So usually I’m not like, I’m not quick to take action and lose a bunch of money on something. So I haven’t had any advice that has really bitten me and the but yet that just I’m like, Oh, this is I can’t believe this guy ever told me this. So.

Yeah, Well, yeah, there’s been some crazy. There’s some crazy advice. There’s so much misinformation online to like, and there’s just never contacts provided. And and I know in the painting contractor group, there’s, there’s, well, there’s plenty of bad advice in there sometimes there’s some, some amazing advice as well. And I think, you know, I think it’s so easy. There’s a lot of advice out there, too, of people that, you know, business advice are hiring and they have never run a business, you know. So that’s one for me is like getting it, you know?

Yeah. Make sure you’re getting whoever you’re getting it from is actually I try to always, like, only take advice and look at my mentors of people that are like, okay, that guy has a company that I respect. You know, he’s got a good family life, like he’s a well rounded individual. Like, that’s someone that I could I could listen to. So I think if you look at it like that, you’re not going to get you just got to be very careful of who you take advice from, because that’s usually people that are where you want to be aren’t giving bad advice.

So yeah, yeah. And they’re usually selective too. They don’t like they want to drop knowledge, but only on people that that, that they feel are going to implement it or receive it well. Yeah. Okay. One last question here is. What is the greatest insight that you can share with our audience that has helped you find success in your painting business?

Huh?

So deep one.

Yeah, Honestly, like I count pretty much all my success is like. None to myself. It’s all about. Like finding people that have already done it and just hearing what they have to say and following it. So when I first when I first started, like. Basically, I met Tanner like five years ago and he was like, Dude, you got to grow your company to a four painting, four for painter model, which is like what he had at the time. So I was like, All right, I’m going to do this. And I’ve since just like picked up on, on different people and I’m just like, All right, I’ll just copy that. I don’t try to be like the smartest guy in the room. I’m just like, Oh, Ryan’s having great success with this. Let’s let’s try this out. So.

Yeah, yeah, that’s awesome, man. Yeah, I’ve done the same thing, too. And what’s funny about that too? I’m not sure if you if you share this, but sometimes, like I think as entrepreneurs and, you know, we’re just there’s so much information out there. I think sometimes we like some of the information falls on deaf ears where like, you know, the mentors are telling us, like, what to do. Like, Hey, do this. And it’s like sometimes we think, Oh, no, I’m going to do this my way. I’m I know what’s good. And I think when we have that humility of like, look, I got two years, I have one mouth like, yep, they’ve done this. Like, I just need to listen and implement versus like, reinvent the wheel. I mean, I mean, you look at all these successful painting companies. Jason what Jason’s done and Nic, it’s like there are so many proven methods like and Nic talks about all the time. He told me one time he goes, I send out my my job costing Google Sheet my template to everyone. He goes, he goes. And I and I can tell you on top, like on my two hands who actually used it, you know, And it’s like the advice is out there. The information is out there, but it’s crazy.

There’s so many good people to listen to. And it’s usually how everyone loses money is it’s like, these are my friends and they’ll call me and they’re like, Oh, I got this great idea and it’s something new, you know, and it sounds so sexy when they’re telling me, but then it’s usually a couple of months later and they’re like, Oh yeah, I just lost like 25 grand. We had like no ROI on that cool new marketing thing we were trying out. So yeah, I think, you know, I was to a certain point you just copy what everyone else is doing and be super successful in this industry.

Yeah, 100%. Are you coming to the PCA in February?

That’s the plan.

Nice. Yes, I’ll be there. So I’ll see you there. Any, any final thoughts, any final nuggets you want to leave with the audience?

No, I think he pulled most of them out of me.

So nice, man. Well, I did my job. I did it well, hopefully. And, guys, if if you’re listening to this, you’re still listen to this or you’re on the replay post in the comments. If you have specific questions for Skyler, I’m sure you’ll come back through and swoop in and and and answer some comments. If you have specific questions for him, keep them in the group outside of that. Man. Thank you so much for your time and for being here. And we’ll see you guys next week on another episode after that. Bro. Thank you so much, man. We’ll see you soon.

Thanks for having me, Ryan.